Pennsylvania's Democratic U.S. Sen. John Fetterman pushed back against criticism of his decision to vote with Republicans to end the nation's longest government shutdown as other members of his party demanded concessions on expiring health care tax credits.
"I absolutely support extending those tax credits, but for me, the kind of chaos and holding our government hostage is unacceptable, and you actually move against my party's values," Fetterman said in an hour-long interview with NPR's Scott Detrow.
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Since the interview aired Tuesday, Fetterman was hospitalized after falling during a morning walk near his home in Braddock. A spokesperson said Fetterman suffered ventricular fibrillation that caused him to become light-headed and fall, suffering minor injuries to his face. He is under observation in a Pittsburgh hospital.
Fetterman has frequently found himself at odds with the majority of his party in the first three years of his term. He addressed his position as a discordant voice in his party on the war in Gaza and his future as a Democrat as well as his new book "Unfettered."
It chronicles his 2022 campaign, the near-fatal stroke that almost derailed it and the severe depression that followed.
"When you hear the expression that you can't get out of your bed, like, I thought, now that's not really right," Fetterman said. "That is true. I couldn't get out of bed. That's part of the lie that you start to tell yourself about depression, and that's when it really becomes dangerous, when it pushes you into the final argument of 'now it's time to take yourself out.'"
Fetterman underwent treatment for more than a month at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in 2023 and stood out in politics for his willingness to talk about the experience. But Fetterman said in the interview he doesn't regret doing so despite opponents using it "to create an impression that's just not true."
"I know that's not necessarily a big political winner to talk about these things. And I think I was the first elected official to do that," he said, adding that he feels he can better help others experiencing depression as a result of his candor. "I don't know what your recovery looks (like) but as long as you stay in it, I promise you, you will get better."
"I've described it as like a … dark gift. I wouldn't ask for it, but if you've had it, you can appreciate life being on the other side," he said.
In his book, Fetterman also writes about his relationship with Democratic Gov. Josh Shapiro and a rift they have never resolved. It stemmed from disagreements over the cases of inmates seeking mercy before the Board of Pardons, where they served when Fetterman was lieutenant governor and Shapiro was state attorney general.
Fetterman, who favored leniency, writes Shapiro was more cautious and Fetterman started to believe that his decisions on the board were influenced by political ambition. His frustration mounted to the point that he called Shapiro a "f–ing a–hole" on a live microphone.
Detrow questioned Fetterman about his relationship with Shapiro, asking if what Fetterman wrote was true that they had no working relationship and don't talk.
"The disagreement began on the Board of Pardons … primarily on brothers that were innocent and I didn't want them to die in prison, and that's where it started, and that's where it ended," Fetterman said, adding that he and Shapiro have been part of meetings and political fundraisers together. He said the fact they haven't spoken "isn't new news," and they "don't have any significant differences on our political views."
Fetterman didn't say if he's made a decision about running for reelection. "Talking about '28, who knows about that? It's like, how long?" he said, adding, "What's important to me (is) that I'm not changing the party."
Democratic colleagues and voters have faulted Fetterman for working with GOP Senators on legislation and adopting a position on immigration that more closely aligns with Republicans than his own party. Fetterman told Detrow he stands behind his voting record, which he described as following his caucus 90% of the time. He denied that he has considered switching parties.
"This is the most purple state in the country, and a lot of people you know and love voted for the other side, and they're not fascists. They're not Nazis," Fetterman said. "They're not trying to destroy our constitution and our democracy. And now trying to find a way forward, is where I'm in."
Asked about the Democratic party's disconnect with men and the working class, Fetterman said it's due to cancel culture and the implication that working people who vote Republican are voting against their own interests.
"And so this idea is the wrong approach, saying you're wrong," he said. "'Are you dumb?' You know, it's like, 'no, you have different values,' and that's why I respect them and try to find a way forward to make the appeal."
Fetterman said he believes former Vice President Kamala Harris made a grave mistake by labeling President Donald Trump a fascist during the 2024 campaign because it alienated voters who had supported him in the past and who Democrats were working to win over. He added that he doesn't see himself as a gatekeeper of what's within norms.
He cited the Trump administration's decision to demolish the East Wing of the White House to make way for a ballroom. Fetterman said it's a reasonable concern that the residence lacks a space large enough for major events.
"It was shocking to actually raze a part of the White House, but, but for me, like, that's not, that's not my hill," Fetterman said.
Asked what his hill was, Fetterman said, "for me, it's the expression, sometimes you pick your battles, and sometimes they pick you. And for me, you know that that quickly became Israel."
Detrow asked Fetterman whether he ever second guessed his pro-Israel stance as the death toll in Gaza mounted into the tens of thousands.
"We have to talk about the context of what Israel was able to accomplish … because they were able to neutralize and destroy Hamas, and the same with Hezbollah, and then they had an opportunity to take out the Iranian nuclear facilities. I was the only Democrat that supported that," Fetterman said, adding that he happens to agree with Trump about supporting Israel's response.
U.S. forces followed Israel's initial attack with a June 21 airstrike by B-2 stealth bombers on three heavily fortified nuclear weapons development sites. The action drew criticism from Democrats who said it exceeded the president's authority to use military force without congressional approval.
Fetterman also questioned whether the ongoing violence in Gaza should be blamed on Israel's bombing or Iran-funded proxies such as Hamas or Hezbollah. He also said "no one breaks down how many actual Hamas fighters or other people" were killed.
"Why can't people condemn putting tunnels under hospitals and embedding themselves in where civilians are?" Fetterman asked, adding the continued existence of Hamas is an obstacle to ending the violence and rebuilding Gaza.
"That's part of the tragedy. That's why you have to destroy and neutralize Hamas. That's a cancer, that's an absolute cancer, and I want the very best for the innocent Palestinians. They deserve to live in peace, and I hope they can," he said.
Pennsylvania Capital-Star is part of States Newsroom, a nonprofit news network supported by grants and a coalition of donors as a 501c(3) public charity. Pennsylvania Capital-Star maintains editorial independence. Contact Editor Tim Lambert for questions: info@penncapital-star.com.